Oh yes, I've outlined the problem, then the next part is the journey towards finding a solution.
Having read through all the posts on the MSE thread I mentioned which alerted me to the problem at the beginning of July, I quickly became quite knowledgable about the Siemens S2AS-100 meter ... isn't the internet wonderful?
I learnt that the meter doesn't just add the outgoing electricity readings onto the incoming ones, it counts them in an internal register separate from the imported readings, but then ours (as many others) is programmed to display the sum of both registers on the meter!
This data is kept in non-volatile internal memory in the meter and should be readable to a technical engineer (or a savvy meter-reader) if they have the correct optical reader device. Basically they can get a USB-connected gizmo which reads infra-red communication and can translate that with the correct software into data on a computer.
Unfortunately our search for a solution was made more difficult because the company supplying our gas & electricity when we installed solar PV was E.ON (they are still our FiT company) but 3 months later we moved to Ovo for lower bills, their green credentials and their (supposedly) better customer service.
Anyway, undaunted, I decided the best place to start would be Ovo - our current dual-fuel supplier and the company who would need to refund us the overcharge for the units we had paid for but not used since at least when they took over our account in mid-Feb.
Additionally I decided that as the Nov - Feb period (with Solar PV & under E.ON) was not a particularly long or fruitful one for generation, I wouldn't go back to E.ON to claim back what I'd been overcharged. Therefore I started by speaking to Ovo.
Sadly of course, the person I spoke to at Ovo had not heard of the problem (they knew some meters could go backwards with solar ... a bad thing of course) but promised to discuss it with the siteworks team and come back to me.
While waiting for that response I decided to call Eclipse to see whether they'd heard of the problem before. They were again very helpful, hadn't come across the issue in the past but agreed it was serious & undertook to assist in ensuring we would not be left out of pocket. They agreed that yes they surveyed & passed everything pre-installation and post, that they cannot legally touch the import meter and it was E.ON's responsibility to ensure it is fit for purpose and functioning properly.
When I was called back by Ovo's more technical people, they acknowledged the issue, said they knew nothing about it previously or in our case and agreed to work to find a solution on 2 fronts:
- to change the faulty meter for one which is appropriate for a micro-generation location (for a £ 30 charge due to us!)
- to find a solution for the overcharging issue
I was obviously glad they were keen to find a solution but said they'd got things the wrong way around - that the financial solution must come first and they could look at changing the meter once that was agreed. I pointed out that the meter contained all the data they'd need to re-bill me correctly from day 1 and that I was concerned removing it would lead to the loss of that information (either through electrical issues or incompetence). They said that they couldn't have this data read until the meter was sent to a lab, but that they'd work on arranging that so we could agree to it.
The £ 30 charge was not something I was keen to agree to - I'd had no idea they'd want to charge me to replace the meter (naive!) but realised that if that would the case then I'd have to chase E.ON as they were aware when we bought the Solar PV system & had it installed. They were informed and all the necessary paperwork was approved. At no point did they raise the potential issue with the Siemens S2AS (though I'm sure someone there would have known by our installation date in late 2011) and they then proceeded to overcharge me as have Ovo ever since.
In addition, Ovo said that if we couldn't agree a way for them to re-bill the overcharged months, they could fit a check meter (or an accuracy test) to log the differences in future days, but that those would cost us around £80 just to get fitted. I offered to pay that if they agreed to levy the charge on an "I win / no fee basis" - if there was no problem, I'd pay the £80, but if there was an issue, they wouldn't charge it. Sadly they wouldn't go with this.
I called to try and ask Ofgem for advice and their phoneline was interesting ... no way at all to leave a message or ask a question directly as a consumer, so I ended up leaving one for the Renewables Team and when they called me back they couldn't help me at all but recommended calling the general advice line. Ofgem's general line just says "contact your supplier and then the Citizen's Advice Bureau" .... not what I expected from the energy watchdog, supposed to be protecting consumers.
So I had left it in Ovo's hands, and here's their response by e-mail:
Good Afternoon Mr Johnston-Knight,
Thank you for your call regarding the query on the current metering issues.
As we discussed I have been in touch with a senior technician at Lowri Beck our metering agents, I had posed them the question relating to your research on the meter type and the potential for accessing the memory to try and establish an accurate record of usage.
After an in depth discussion we have unfortunately found that although they are aware of the meter type and the capabilities of the internal memory it would not be possible for them to access this themselves without involving the manufacturer with whom we unfortunately hold no contract.
As we mentioned earlier I have looked into other possibilities so that this may be worked out as fairly and as accurately as possible, looking into this with my manager we would be willing to look at the generation readings you have from your personal generation meter and compare this to your estimated consumption to work out a plausible final bill for the old meter.
I appreciate your time and patience with this matter and hope we can resolve this for you, if you could please contact us so we may discuss this further and of course arrange the exchange of the meter so that the issue is not delayed for your bills going forward. Many Kind Regards
[name removed]
Industry Interaction Specialist
Following this message I had a discussion with them, airing my frustration that something as functional and mundane as their lack of a contact with a particular company could be the barrier to getting the information we all want off the meter. For goodness sake, the device they need is little more than a fancy TV remote control.
Anyway, they offered to propose a re-billing solution after exchanging the meter - I said they must offer the solution beforehand.
So they asked for the readings I'd been taking since before we installed the solar panels (electricity in, solar PV generation) which I was happy to provide.
Their proposal came back relatively soon:
Good Afternoon Mr Johnston-Knight,
Thank you for the spread sheet containing the meter reading history.
I have looked at this with one of my colleagues in our billing department to try to give you an example of how your daily usage would be billed based on the generation readings provided.
Using the figures provided I have calculated the data based on the readings provided from 19/02/2012 to 07/07/2012, we have used the 19/02/2012 as a starting point as this record has reads taken from both the generation and supplier meter and of course is making sure we only include the period of time since you joined Ovo.
This period covers a total of 161 days, if we look at your total generation for the period it equates to 1775 units, over the 139 day period this comes out at an average of 12.7 units of generation per day. From the other side the total usage before we take your generation into account equates to 2520 units over the 139 day period, this comes to an average of 18.1 units per day.
Using the data collated from your generation we would calculate that the usage after generation is taken into account would come to 5.4 units a day for this period. I must advise this is only based on the data to date and that as I am sure you aware the meter would have only “overclocked” when the generation was more than your consumption, I must also advise that when it does come to re-bill we will only be able to use the readings from when we became your supplier .
Going over this with my manager we would like to propose that we would re-bill you for the total consumption used to the date of the meter exchange, minus 6 units per day, so for example using the data above if we re-billed you now you would be billed for 1554 units.
I hope this has provided you with some clarification on what the re-billing process would entail, if you have any further questions or queries please do not hesitate to contact me.
Many Kind Regards
Industry Interaction Specialist
So basically, ignoring the errors in the message (inaccurate dates, figures & calculations) they were offering me a credit for 6 units per day for the time I was with Ovo.
I didn't feel this was sensible or realistic, so as well as pointing out the confusion in their e-mail, I told them my view:
Hello and thank you for your swift response.
I'm afraid that I don't feel this is a realistic offer given that it means we're judged to have used half of the generated electricity (6 units per day out of an average 12 units) and still imported just as much as we've generated (an average of 12 units per day).
I believe we're unlikely to have used even 1 third of the generated electricity, certainly during the week, as we all go out to work and do not leave power hungry appliances to run during our absence due to fear of fire and the practical difficulty of organising this with a young family.
I believe that our usage of electricity has changed since installing PV to be less overall due to our awareness of what the power costs and how much we are using.
I really do think that an interrogation of the current meter's internal register or a check-meter would be the fairest / most accurate way to resolve this!
Additionally of course I have to get some resolution for the period before switching to Ovo and of course will have to deal with that separately whereas if we can get the info off the meter there will be no fuss & negotiation needed.
Please let me know your response.
Thanks,
Paul
Sadly Ovo rejected my suggestion of a 9 unit per day credit and wrote the following:
Good Morning Mr Johnston-Knight,
Thank you for your response to my mail.
As mentioned in previous discussions a check meter would be possible however I have already discussed this with my manager and we could not offer this free of charge additionally the check meter will only tell us the current consumption at this particular moment in time, it would still mean estimation would be required to create a bill.
Unfortunately when proposing recalculation to the billing we would only look to use the actual consumption figures as they’re provided, I appreciate that since your PV installation you may have becoming for consumption savvy, it’s an unknown quantity and very difficult for us to anticipate the effect this will have.
With regards to extracting the information for the internal log within the meter, this is not something we’re able to do. As a smart supplier we do not have all the available technology that may be present elsewhere in the Industry, however we are happy to meet expectations where we can.
In this instance we’re not able to access the information and we’ll not be able to take this into consideration when looking at the re-calculation of your bill.
If you would like us to continue with the revised billing as proposed in my previous correspondence please do let us know. Once this is confirmed we’ll be able to arrange with you a suitable time to have the meter exchange carried out to have the functionality of your meter updated to be able to correctly clock your consumption.
I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause, if you’re unhappy with my response and wish to have this escalated please contact our feedback team at feedback@ovoenergy.com who will look into this for you. This will begin our complaints process, which, should the need arise for this to be escalated further, will need to be followed.
Many Kind regards,
Industry Interaction Specialist
So as I was unwilling to accept their guesswork & meter swapping, I "escalated the issue to a complaint" to use their jargon.
Here's my message, trying to make it simple:
Hello,
I'm afraid that I'm dissatisfied with the way my request has been handled, so as directed I would like to escalate this to a complaint.
I'd like to underline that my complaint is not with anyone in particular – everyone I've spoken to has been courteous and helpful – rather with your procedures and systems.
I feel that my concerns are not being taken as reasonable or acted upon fairly.
As things stand we don't have any accurate info at all regarding our true usage of power since Nov 2011 (Solar PV installation) and for the whole duration of our Ovo account (since Feb 2012):
1 The incoming electricity meter (Siemens S2AS-100) has been recording not only theincoming feed but also what we generate (with our Solar PV panels) but do not use ourselves and therefore export to the grid.
2 This has only recently come to light (when I started logging our readings) but is a known issue with the meter we have had for years.
3 The estimated usage figures based upon (our) previous years' readings do not take account of the recently installed Solar PV system which allows us free & unrecorded use of a 4kWp array, at times up to a nominal 4kWh level.
4 Replacing the incoming meter now would, yes, give us our true incoming electricity level in future, but would not go any significant way to documenting what our historical incoming orgenerated & exported levels of electricity were.
5 In my view there is 1 ideal way of getting the accurate information regarding the level ofovercharge: to interrogate the only place where the relevant figures are stored - our currently installed meter - to analyse the historical incoming & outgoing levels of power on a daily basis.
6 The incoming meter analysis solution would also give us the data we need to pursue E.ON who were our supplier at the time of PV installation, who should have picked up on the incompatibility of our meter with that system and should have changed it.
7 E.ON supplied us before we switched to Ovo (a change I'm now regretting!) and therefore were also overcharging us for 3 months. If we are prevented from getting the accurate data then we will have the same merry-go-round of negotiation and counter-argument with them, something which I'd really rather avoid.
8 I'm aware that your contracts and systems have not been used for this kind of investigation yet, however that doesn't mean it is impossible, nor that someone else couldn't do it for you. If E.ON's engineers are able to do it, perhaps that would be a solution which could be arranged?
9 The second best way to get some idea of what the relevant levels of electricity usage &export have been, would be to install a check meter next to the current meter to gauge the relevant levels over the coming weeks. This method would at least give us an idea of what the magnitude of the overcharge is on a daily basis and we could therefore extrapolate from that the probable levels of historical use, generation & overcharge.
10 This option would give us accurate levels of incoming & generated/outgoing electricity on a daily basis for as long as you want. This would give date to allow us to calculate what the historical figures were – I have the historical generated levels and these could be paired with similar levels during the Check Meter period to enlighten us all to what level of incoming andoutgoing electricity have been hidden behind our 1 incoming meter reading.
11 So for example we’ll have realistic figures for what happens on a 5 unit day, a 10 unit day and a 20 unit generation day. This will allow us to combine these figures with the estimated ones I have on a daily basis from PVspot (http://solargis.info/index.html) – 99.7% accurate on average – for our specific system.
12 For me, simply guesstimating the average level of excess generation & overcharge is simply too open to inaccuracy one way or another.
13 I feel that an estimated figure of 6 units per day overcharge in a rebilling is on the low side but I'd actually be happier with an evidence-based figure of an average 6 units per day (representing the daily generated & exported units), because at least I'd know there was a data-based and accurate source to it.
14 You see I'm sure that on some days we've been overcharge by less than 6kWh, however on days when we've been generating 20, 25 and 28 units it's likely we've been exporting 3 and 4 times that figure.
15 I am not willing to pay for the replacement of our meter (once a solution has been agreed), nor for the use of a Check Meter. As our electricity supplying company, I believe it is your responsibility to ensure that the meter is working correctly and it has not been doing since the day Ovo took over. Although this was the case under E.ON I was unaware of the problem and I believe that they are now unable to act as you are the current supplier.
16 Your response to this could assist us to get some resolution and cooperation from E.ON however simply offering a re-bill credit of 6 units per day is not very helpful. Please acknowledge receipt of this message and let me know, either by e-mail or mobile, what the timescale for a response is.
Many thanks,
Paul Johnston-Knight
I quickly received an automatic reply promising a response within 5 working days.
On Mon 23rd July they called me at 5.55pm to suggest a totally unexpected solution: would we be interested in moving our account back to E.ON?
This sounds a bit barmy, as in the first place I moved from E.ON to Ovo for a cheaper (and hopefully better) service!
The rationale was that as a small supplier they don't have the systems in place to get the relevant data from the faulty Siemens meter, however they said, as a large supplier, E.ON will have such processes and it wouldn't be a problem for them, and, kind as they are, Ovo would waive the early departure fee (they actually said this!) and accept whatever data comes from the buggy Siemens meter.
I asked whether they knew that E.ON have such software / hardware / systems and she said, "I'm sure they will have" ... I'm not exactly brimming with confidence yet!
I've taken a week to work through some other possible routes to a solution and am now going back to Ovo to insist that they don't simply body-swerve the issue and deal with it.
Sorry about the very wordy post, but hopefully you get the drift of how frustrating the saga has been!
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